What's The Problem?
(Disclaimer: The following question/discussion/comment is not meant to deal with any particular church, minister, or individual. It is for any of us to help discuss issues that may or may not be affecting those around us. This topic (and blog) is open to all Pastors, Ministers, and Lay People who read this blog.)
What do you think is the biggest problem that Pastors/Ministers face in their ministry and personally? Is there one problem/issue or are there many? Do you think there are things that are worse than others, and does it depend on your stage of life/ministry?
I received a suggestion that we cover some topics such as this, so let's discuss this with sincerity and honesty.
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Bro. Matt. I personally think that there are several of the things that plague all of us. the main thing is how we handel them. I really do not think it is an age thing unless the persons involved choose to make it an issue, which they do sometimes.
One of the great problems that I have dealt with dureing my years is this. Pastor or Deacons thinking that a project needs to be done, then getting a majority vote and then proceed with maby 25 to 30% aganst it. that is a formula for disaster. I have a saying, "We never leave the station untill every one is on board."
I think one of the biggest problems pastors/preachers face both in their ministries and personally is pride. Pride goeth before destruction, and is a real killer of ministry -- which is service. Pride is a more visible problem in cases of large or "mega" churches. But pride is not just a problem for those who are pastoring 1000 member churches. It can be just as rooted in the heart of a pastor of 20 members.
Two problems I face is that people don't understand that this is my calling. Most people just attend and really don't want to put in he effort to take the church a new level or their spiritual life.
Second is that I find most staff members, including myself, forget what it is like to have a full time job, family, piano lessons, and soccer games and to get then demand that they be there every time the doors are open. Sometimes I forget that most have a life outside of church. I don't. I am super saturated in church books, church meetings, and church fellowships. My friends all go to the same church. I lay awake at night thinking about church issues or strategy. But if I were to spontaneously show up at a church members house, they are probably just watching football and trying to solve their own houseful of problems. Long story short, my issues are too disconnected from the real issues my members are going through.
Bro. Marlin
I agree that the way we handle things will often make the difference in the outcome.
I can see the wisdom with everyone being on board, but I do have a question concerning that? What if the majority (let's say 70%) feels that something needs to be done, and they feel it is vital to that local church and the Lord's work. Should they wait on the other 30% or should they go ahead and do what they believe needs to be done. (Of course, this would probably depend a lot on what the issue is with which they are dealing.) I just wondered how you might approach it. (As far as I can remember, I haven't had to deal with that particular issue.)
Bro. Robert,
I believe that pride is an issue with almost everyone. And yes, I believe it is an issue in the ministry. So, what practical advice would you give on how to "defeat" pride? I'm not trying to trip you up here; I would just like to hear some suggestions from a "senior" (You are older than me! Haha!!!) minister.
Bro. Brian,
I think the first issue you brought up is existent in most every church. There are many Christians who are satisfied with their current level of..."Christianity". (For the sake of this argument, we will assume they are all saved.)
The second issue has an interesting twist to it. Before I comment any further, I think I'd like to see what some others think about it.
Bro. Matt, Certainly it would depend on the issue. If it were a doctrinal issue I would certainly go with 70% but if it was something like changeing music type or service schedule, or something of a traditional sort I would do a lot of preaching, teaching, and personal work on it, pointing out the scripturality of what ever it might be.
While I'm at it, I'll take the liberty to comment on all three posts.
You asked Bro. Marlin, "What if the majority (let's say 70%) feels that something needs to be done, and they feel it is vital to that local church and the Lord's work? Should they wait on the other 30% or should they go ahead and do what they believe needs to be done?" Well, I guess it could depend on what you're talking about. We Baptists have often made things harder than they need to be -- like voting on what color of toilet paper to use instead of someone just handling it. But in any important spiritual matters for the church to move ahead, 30% -- even 10% -- is a very large weight to drag behind. Seek unanimity before moving forward. Surely some of the 30% has some spiritual discernment and legitimate concerns that need to be heard. This is a check and balance. Of course, this is what I would consider ideal; most churches already have methods in place re simple majority, 2/3 majority, unanimity, etc.
Practical advice on how to "defeat" pride? Not sure. That is a tall order. Pride, like the poor, will probably be with us always. IMO, if churches imitated the plural eldership of the New Testament that would go a long way towards diminishing it in the ministry. Perhaps do away with expressions like "pastoring is the most important work that exists." I'm sure those that say such mean well (and something less than the pride it seems to hold). When pastors begin to dwell on such an idea, though, they are bound to eventually be lifted up with pride. IMO, whatever each individual is called to do is the most important work on earth. There is one body, but many members. That's all I can think of right now. I had one more, but having a "senior" moment, it has completely passed out of my mind.
Related to the pride thing and Bro. Sparks' comments, the disconnect from the real issues of what church members are going through can both feed a pastor's pride through his "differentness", and can simply remove him from being able to relate to church members and their problems. When a pastor can only relate to what other preachers are going through, he is in big trouble.
Bros. Marlin and Robert,
I agree that a lot of the decision concerning the 70/30% divide would be about what issue was being discussed.
Also, I agree with a lot of what Robert has said about a plurality of elders. Though I have some questions about it (which I can use later for a post!), I can see the NT example and wisdom behind such a practice.
Bro. Matt, One more comment. We have over the years installed a "fail safe" (aparatus,) for lack of a better word: If any thing comes up that is of a controversial nature, without prior notification or some discussion it is tabeled untill it can be discussed by our staff and the person or persons who brought it up. Our Staff consists of Pastor, Music director, Youth director, and teachers. this takes in most of the church. but it also puts the discussion in a non formal relaxed atmosphere. the results after one or more meetings is reported to the Church in a formal meeting for a vote. Most of the time it results in a 100% vote. Marlin Freeman
Bro. Marlin,
I can see how that would work in most cases and definitely prevent some problems. We have something similar - we voted that all business agenda items must be brought to one of the ministers, deacons, etc. at least one week before our meeting in order to be discussed. This helps with things just popping up and causing problems. Now, we also included in that motion that that "rule" could be "overruled" by a 2/3 vote of those in attendance at a regularly scheduled business meeting. While this is not a perfect solution, it has worked quite well for us.
Two things.
#1 - Pride is the sin into which I walk almost immediately after I am extremely close to God. I think if we acknowledge the fact that pride will accompany greatness, and if we actually dwell on the fact that we should beware of it any time we are serving the LORD, maybe it will help us recognize the temptation when it shows up.
#2 - I'm not sure what needs to be done about the voting issue. The problem I have, though, is assuming any church will have over 90% of its members right with God at any given moment. In the times in which we live, I think if over half a church is right with God, it is quite something for rejoicing. So while the 30% may have some spiritual discernment, we most likely won't have 100% in the will of God and being sensitive to the Holy Spirit at any given meeting.
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